Google's Website Guidelines

Zaiaku · 06-12-2007, 12:17 PM

I'm making this post basically towards CM and Loco since they are experienced webmasters. Also becuase I know they going to see things diferent then I do. But Anyone with experience please feel free to add your input into this. On Google's Webmasters blog site there was post with these guidelies.

Quality guidelines - specific guidelines

Avoid hidden text or hidden links.
Don't use cloaking or sneaky redirects.
Don't send automated queries to Google.
Don't load pages with irrelevant keywords.
Don't create multiple pages, subdomains, or domains with substantially duplicate content.
Don't create pages that install viruses, trojans, or other badware.
Avoid "doorway" pages created just for search engines, or other "cookie cutter" approaches such as affiliate programs with little or no original content.
If your site participates in an affiliate program, make sure that your site adds value. Provide unique and relevant content that gives users a reason to visit your site first.

I do believe that these should be guidelines for sites, but when you put them into practice some have ground to stand on. The main one which is one of the most concered with most vbulletin site owners is the duplicate content theory.

I know this is suppose to be looked down upon but I have put this to the test for a long time and although I know CM and Loco will disagree with me its true, duplicate content in all essence of the idea really isn't something to worry about. For that matter content just matters how often your site is found on google.

I tried duplicate content in so many ways, they all was listed faster then anything and was ranked atleast to a PR3 or PR4. Even pages with no content besides a header and footer was still ranked with a PR3.

If you really think about it long enough, consider what exactly would make duplicate content affect a site negatively. Estimate atleast 90% of vbulletin sites have the default header, navigation and footer. Profiles and memberlists are going to have similar content.

The next thing is just content. I actually bought a new domain just to test this out. I made a site with no content, yes just a site with a blank html page. All I did was put tons of links out on the site. Most links were text using the single word site. The site instantly went to a PR3. Yes a PR3 isn't very high but much higher then a site with no content should have.

Basically I'm saying this. Guidelines for websites are good and should be enforce. But to anyone concerned with pagerank, if I could see how something more then just links would raise your rank to a site I would love to see it. Becuase so far nothing has showed me its more then just a link game.

Code Monkey · 06-12-2007, 07:20 PM

You seem to be confused about something. The duplicate content penalties of Google don't really have anything to do with page rank. Where they penalize you is in the SERP's (Search Engine Ranking Pages). Which is a whole different thing.

The Google algorithm will determine which page of similar content is the oldest and therefore original content offering. And that is the page it will produce first to the web searcher. The pages deemed to be duplicates or too similar in content will be in their supplemental results if they are cached at all. If this doesn't bother you then by all means have at it. But I can guarantee you that if Google finds too much duplicate content on your site it will have a serious affect on the all your pages placement in the SERPS.

So remember, Page Rank is a whole different thing than how well your pages place in searches. And that's what duplicate content will harm. Page Rank is based on external links to your site.

Zaiaku · 06-13-2007, 08:36 AM

Ok it seems as though I was confused about how duplicate content affects a site. This brings up 2 questions that I have then.

1. What exactly duplicate content? Let's say I have the exact same text. And you only changed the order. For example move the last paragraph to the first and so on. Would it still be considered duplicate content?

2. Let's say siteA posted a story, then then siteB copy the exact same text and posted it on its site. By chance SiteB story was crawled and indexed first. Would siteA be considered as duplicate content since it was crawled later?

Code Monkey · 06-13-2007, 05:09 PM

Google doesn't date it by when they crawl it. They have an extensive algorithm that determines the earliest work. Keep in mind that an original piece of content will have links from other sites to it and Google will find those to and base their conclusions on that as well.

If you want to reference other peoples content that you have permission to use then it is always best to quote partial content and place a link back to the original. You may not get a lot of credit from Google for that but you won't get punished when you give attribution to the source.

Zaiaku · 06-14-2007, 08:05 PM

Oh no I wasn't worried about getting punish from google or anything like that. I was just wondering in a situation like that what would happen. Getting a good number of links to the page would be easy to do. But the main thing I was wondering if if the 2nd site was crawled first how would effect the original site.

Also that's another reason why I like this site. I can ask a question and get a intellegent response.

michaeljvbull · 06-22-2007, 07:54 PM

"All I did was put tons of links out on the site. Most links were text using the single word site. The site instantly went to a PR3.

Could you please elaborate on what you did and how you did this link thing?

Zaiaku · 06-26-2007, 12:15 PM

No problem,
What I did was help 1 person who need help with their forum and they setup a link to me on a few pages. They didn't know anything about pageranks or atleast didn't care. They set me up link to my site. Next update I instantly went to a PR3. There was no other link I put out there. My page was just a blank html. Links where a single word example BOBCAT

Another domain I tried doing the same thing to except try puting the link on multiple links on many sites. Same type of links using a single word example TIGER. This time the pagerank only went to 1. This link was on the same pages as the other one that got a PR3

I tried this out multiple times on different domains. Domains are really cheap these days. I know I'm not the most knowledgable when it comes to search engines so that's why I test things out.

Pageranks and Link popularity. Honestly I would concenstrate on one or the other if you care about either one. Getting a links from a PR0 site will hurt you pagerank or atleast make you rise slower but it will help it link popularity like Alexa and similiar. I've still trying out a few things seeint ways ro rise in Page Ranking and SERP.

---------------------------------

Although a question I asked ealier about duplicate content. Say site-A post a story and site-B decides to copy your story and post it on the their site. Yes who ever site is crawl first is first listed on Google, not sure about other SE's. I testing this out plus got the circumstance from other webmaster that has happened to them.

michaeljvbull · 06-27-2007, 07:41 AM

Does anyone have any experience with Google's Reciprocal Link Penalty?

Code Monkey · 06-27-2007, 08:13 AM

It's rumored that they have downgraded it. But as with anything Google, it's just a guess. It's probably not a good idea to link between your own sites if they are not related or are in the same IP neighborhood. If you have two related sites make sure they are on separate C-class IP's before cross linking. A lot of people do 3 way linking. A links to B, B links to C, C links to A. However, it is also rumored that Google can figure that out as well.

The best thing, IMO, for the long term ranking health of a website is the constant generation of quality content and receiving natural links back to that content. Which by there very nature, is difficult to do with forums.

With a "topical" forum it's probably best to eliminate the noise that SE's see. For example Introductions forums. That's great for the website but it's usually off topic noise and short little "hello" and "welcome" posts. Make it not viewable to guests and problem solved.

There are many things you can do but in the end, it's really hard to reach authority status with a forum unless it's natural and it's a great forum. That's why there are so few and you really don't see anything higher than page rank 7. If your forum is page rank 4 or 5 then you are probably doing pretty good and with a little work could jump up to 6. It's a crap shoot with Google though.

Zaiaku · 06-27-2007, 12:55 PM

Ok I'll add on to CM post.

1 of my domains was link from only 1 other site. That site was my friends forum and it did jump to a PR3. Both sites are hosted on the same server, for that matter the same account. Yeah its only a PR3 but that was from a not rated domain though.

CM says this alot and I see alot of other people saying the same thing about related content. I'm really don't see how that really matters. Not saying its not right, just saying I don't really see how it is.

Seriously define related content. Does that mean 50% of the words have to be the same. Google only going by words, its a bot, its not a person reading each paragraph understand the meaning and the thoughts put into it. If I made a site about vbulletin, then anysite running vbulletin in a sense is related. Especially admins who don't change the meta tags. Also one of my test was a domain with a blank html page so no related content becuase it has no content and still got to a PR3.

Like I said I'm no were close to being an expect and like CM said, everything is pretty much a guess with Google, especially since they make changes here and there. I myswelf talk everything I here from establish site owners but rely on them, I take time and try things out and see what works.

Code Monkey · 06-27-2007, 02:16 PM

It only takes one semi good link to get page rank 3. They basically gives those out at the door for showing up. A few good quality related links gets you a 4. Do a little work and get a 5. Work your but off and make people happy and you get a 6. When people catch on you get a 7. When everybody loves you or needs you it's a 8. When they don't have a lot of other places to find it and they want it it's a 9. And when it's unique, universally wanted and in demand, it's an authoritative 10.

Good luck

Zaiaku · 06-27-2007, 04:34 PM

Tht's proably the best breakdown although I think CM just shot down my test domains with that post.

CoryHawk · 07-07-2007, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Code Monkey

It's rumored that they have downgraded it. But as with anything Google, it's just a guess. It's probably not a good idea to link between your own sites if they are not related or are in the same IP neighborhood. If you have two related sites make sure they are on separate C-class IP's before cross linking. A lot of people do 3 way linking. A links to B, B links to C, C links to A. However, it is also rumored that Google can figure that out as well.

CM..

I run a Correctional Officer forum and have a personal blog about the stories and stuff that happen in the prison I work.. I do have a link from my blog to my forums.. since they are hosted on the same machine the IPs will be nearly the same.. is this hurting me or since they have similar content it would be ok by google's standards?

Did I interpret your post correctly?

carforumsnet · 11-24-2007, 02:20 PM

Interesting read

Code Monkey · 11-24-2007, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoryHawk

CM..

I run a Correctional Officer forum and have a personal blog about the stories and stuff that happen in the prison I work.. I do have a link from my blog to my forums.. since they are hosted on the same machine the IPs will be nearly the same.. is this hurting me or since they have similar content it would be ok by google's standards?

Did I interpret your post correctly?

I guess I never saw this post.

I doubt one link is going to hurt you. And if they are on the same domain then no, it won't hurt.